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   Sean Fennessey On Spielberg, Simmons, and Getting Back to Music Writing
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                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      For the contemporary movie nerd who consumes films then consumes all the media dissecting and discussing those films, Sean Fennessey looms large. As a host of The Ringer’s The Big Picture podcast and a frequent guest across the network’s other hugely proper programming such as The Rewatchables, Sean’s voice and opinion on movies past and present, and the state of the industry, carries heavy weight and travels far—especially at a time when—thanks to IMAX marketing, Letterboxd, and other recent vehicles for movie discourse—cinephilia has never been more mainstream.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      But for the truly Tapped In, appreciation for Sean’s voice on cultural works of significance stretches back years before he ever sat in front of a camera, when he was a vital pen in the world of music coverage at places like Vibe, Pitchfork, and this very publication. That history made it all the more intriguing when he announced his intentions to get back to the written word earlier this year via Substack, where he recently launched the newsletter
                      <a style="text-decoration: underline; color: #000000;">
                       Projections
                      </a>
                      . Sean and I caught up earlier this week on a video call—he from his home office, his infamously large collection of physical media encroaching on all sides of the frame—to talk through his impulse to write again, the art of podcasting, whether Hollywood’s sky is falling or if things are suspiciously looking up, and the thing Steven Spielberg and Bill Simmons have in common.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       I guess my first question is, why start a Substack?
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      There are a few reasons. One is very sentimental and personal, which is that I really like writing, and I missed it a lot. I've been podcasting for about 10 years now, and I love doing it, and don't intend to stop doing it. But I find that it is sometimes an… imprecise form of media.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      Especially the way that we make shows, it's very purposefully designed to be a hang. The shows that I'm on for the most part are shows with me and my friends, some of whom are literally my closest friends in the world. And so, the dynamic that's created is, we give each other shit or we can explore the more eccentric parts of our personality, but it's not as formal a discussion as it might be if you were having it with a stranger or someone you don't know as well.So a lot of times it's the end of an episode and I'm like,
                      <em>
                       did I even really fully say what I wanted to say about that movie?
                      </em>
                      And it doesn't mean that the show isn't working or I'm not happy with it. It just means that thinking about movies critically, or any art form critically, does require a lot of precision.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      I'm a very neat and tight kind of person. So it's interesting that my career has moved into this direction of a less tight form of communication. So I was trying to find a way to write a little bit more, communicate a little bit more clearly about how I felt about certain things.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      And then, the other thing is just thinking about the second half of my life, and the second half of my career, and why I got into this in the first place, and what I want to be doing over time. I think writing is something I feel like no matter how I look or how I sound, I'll be able to do that over time.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      I felt I really needed a new challenge having been doing what I've been doing. And at work, we were talking about how writing and media and publishing and journalism is evolving. I was talking to Bill Simmons and he was just like, “You're already putting all your thoughts in Letterboxd reviews up for free, all the time. Why are you doing that?” And so, this was a way to expand upon what I was doing in that way and formalize it a little bit. I've only written a few pieces so far, but I like it. And you know this feeling, of when you hit publish on something, there's a little chill that you get, a different sense of accomplishment.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       You said you were talking with Bill and others about the way journalism is evolving. Is it fair to say The Ringer is reducing its footprint as a website with articles that people read and focusing even more on the visual side of media?
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      I don't think the intention is to reduce the footprint. I think it's to evolve how things are delivered. I want to be careful not to talk too much about what The Ringer wants to do. But there's no doubt that digital publishing consumption has changed so much in the last 10 years. When we started The Ringer in 2016, the idea was to continue in the tradition of Grantland, and also to evolve this idea that we all had as magazine lovers and newspaper lovers about what we thought people wanted every day, and creating a one-stop shop for all of your interests. If all of our interests align with yours, then you're the kind of person who wakes up in the morning and goes to theringer.com and wants to read everything on the website. That was probably unrealistic then, and it's definitely unrealistic now.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      I think the success of a lot of the shows that we have on the network, and a lot of the growth that we've seen, has indicated that these hyper-fixated communities are where things are right now. And so, I've seen that as somebody who just spends all day talking about movies. People who like movies
                      <em>
                       love
                      </em>
                      movies, and they want to be inside of that world all the time.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      So I think in general, The Ringer is thinking about that and thinking about the way that just because you like
                      <em>
                       Game of Thrones
                      </em>
                      and want to read a recap of that show doesn't mean you necessarily want to know what's going on with Nikola Jokic in this Timberwolves series. You might, and hopefully you do, but there's no guarantee there.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      Plus, there's a much broader conversation about homepage traffic and what AI and search results are doing and the deterioration of a certain kind of digital ecosystem, which I think anybody who's been paying attention to this space has seen really, really happen over the last five years. So it's about being mindful of that too.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       Yeah, don't I know it. We're talking about the newsletter and obviously a big, big focus of your life now is movies and cinema, specifically. But you have this really rich history in music journalism. Are you going to maybe explore that on your Substack as well?
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      I want to. It's funny that you ask about that. I gave a talk to some college students yesterday, and the professor was asking me about my music journalism background. And he was like, "You're always posting songs on Instagram. I love that." And I am still listening to music, but I feel so old, Frazier. Just so washed to such a degree that I can't even pretend to be on the cutting edge of anything or the vanguard of anything.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      I still know what I like, and I pretty much used what I like as the beacon when I was writing about it in my 20s and 30s. But when I was working at Vibe, Jon Caramanica specifically said to me, "This is youth culture, what we are doing here." And it's hard to stay in that culture when you're a dad picking your daughter up from ballet class.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      So I think I will happily, if the moment arises, try to write about music that is clicking with me, but it's going to feel different from what I like to do, which I think is kind of emotional curation, like things that I respond to personally, and then trying to share with the world why I like it and why you might like it too, and do that in a way that feels like it really is at the forefront of what's happening with the art form. For whatever reason, that is a framework that just makes a lot of sense to me, is to say, "This is happening right now, and it's clicking with a lot of people, and it's clicking with me, and here's why it's clicking with me, and that might help you better understand why it's happening in the world at large."
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      And music, even more so than movies, is so fractionalized around the world, and so specific to personal taste, and that ability to curate is so individual.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      The other thing is music can be such a passive experience. Whereas with movies, it's such an active experience. I think because of that and the way that we multitask in our society, movies, and spending time on movies, makes more sense to me with respect to the work that I'm doing, because I'm like, people do still need their hand held a little bit. They still do need that kind of nudge. Whereas with music, I tell people about songs that I like and they're like, "Good for you, man." Whereas with a movie, they're like, "Did you like it? Why'd you like it?"
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       It’s funny you mention Jon, because
                      </strong>
                      <a style="text-decoration: underline; color: #000000;">
                       <strong>
                        he's in the Mercedes
                       </strong>
                      </a>
                      <strong>
                       riding around, still very much keeping up with the youth culture.
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      I know, but he's a unicorn though. The fact that he's been able to sustain it that way and keep the passion, keep the insight, is very, very hard to do. I have a lot of admiration for that, but I couldn't do it. I was kind of born a guy in his 40s. When I was 11, I was ready to be in my 40s. So I'm kind of comfortably settled into this era of my life. I'm not chasing something that I used to get. But when something hits, then it hits... I was listening to the Nine Inch Noise album this week and it still moves me as deeply as any movie can move me.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       Speaking of your days at Vibe, there’s that classic issue where you ranked every Jay-Z song ever at the time, which is one of my favorite magazine undertakings that I've ever seen.
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      That was really stupid [laughs]. That was a really fun issue, because Danyel Smith was the editor-in-chief at the time, and Elliott Wilson was writing the Jay cover story.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      And so, the whole thing was managed and strategized around a big celebration of Jay. It was also an anniversary issue for the magazine. And I think I spent four months on that, and I was the kind of person who had every single song on Napster, and then I had as many physical copies of the mixtapes as I could possibly get my hands on.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      And we had a fact-checking team, and they were going through the facts, and I was sending them MP3s so they could confirm lyrics that were cited. And we were really doing the
                      <em>
                       New Yorker
                      </em>
                      -style magazine journalism thing, but with my stupid list of 454 Jay songs. But doing that kind of work completely informed where I'm at now, what we're doing now on
                      <em>
                       The Big Picture
                      </em>
                      , the way that I think about movie history, it's all the same stuff. It's just personal canonization.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      And then, if you have a strong enough point of view, it starts to actually become part of the canon if you're doing it effectively. I am always trying to make stuff that I would've wanted to read when I was 15, or listened to when I was 15. And that project was the culmination of ... Gosh, I mean, I really got into Jay in like '97, so at that point, that was probably 2007. So that was 10 years of hardcore fandom.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0">
                      <a rel="noopener" style="text-decoration: underline; color: #000000;" target="_blank">
                       <em>
                        <u>
                         <strong>
                          Read the rest of interview here, including that Bill Simmons Limitless pick and where Sean thinks the movie industry is headed from here.
                         </strong>
                        </u>
                       </em>
                      </a>
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                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:15px">
                      <strong>
                       Between the Taps
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0">
                      (
                      <em>
                       A weekly roundup of everything else I consumed since the last Tap In)
                      </em>
                     </p>
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                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       <em>
                        The Invite
                       </em>
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      As Sean and I discussed up top, I recently saw Olivia Wilde’s newest film, which is indeed a stark 180 from the notoriously overwrought, drama-plagued production that is
                      <em>
                       Don’t Worry Darling
                      </em>
                      . It’s a chamber-dramedy starring Wilde herself, trapped in a crumbling marriage to Seth Rogen, a reality made all the more obvious during a dinner party opposite another couple, played by Penelope Cruz and Ed Norton. At times the humor didn’t quite work for me, but once Cruz and Norton enter the picture, it’s charming, breezy, and then inevitably sad enough to mostly work, especially with a tight running time. And for all of
                      <em>
                       Darling
                      </em>
                      ’s big sci-fi swings, Wilde flexes her director muscles way more impressively confining things to this one New York apartment (admittedly, the fact that it’s double the size of a typical city unit is a plot point, but still) with all types of interestingly framed shots of the quartet perceiving each other from different distances and vantages that says a lot about what they think of each other and what we think of ourselves when we think no one else is looking.
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       <em>
                        Michael
                       </em>
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      Hilarious that a paper-thin, Hallmark movie-level script and adaptation of the suss King of Pop’s story (that even has a built-in handicap of not having to cover his entire life and still fails!), which falls short of communicating any kind of interiority or nuance let alone the scale or mysteriousness of his craft and creativity, still found time to include Ben the Rat. (Dear reader, I sat up like Rick Dalton.) We barely even get a grasp of who Quincy Jones really is or what their union on wax meant and yielded, but God bless, we got the rat, and CGI Bubbles, and a llama. With those priorities in tow, how could the crack team behind this useless biopic lose?
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0;margin-bottom:16px">
                      <strong>
                       Los Angeles Lakers at
                      </strong>
                      <a style="text-decoration: underline; color: #000000;">
                       <strong>
                        Crypto.com
                       </strong>
                      </a>
                      <strong>
                       Arena, Game 5
                      </strong>
                     </p>
                     <p style="margin:0">
                      I made a literal game-time decision to pull up and see my beloved NBA team (my longtime team, despite the woeful misconception that I’m a newfound fan because I live here now) finally advance past the first round in the playoffs for the first time in something like two straight seasons. That did not happen, and now league-defining legacies are on the line…I don’t want to talk about it. But my seats were crisper than a 4K Peacock stream—I had a near straight line across from Kevin Durant on the bench, whispering spells at LeBron and co. to knock them off their pivot like Professor Quirrell. Would’ve been a great time if I could actually enjoy what I was seeing!
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